Editing Heroes of the Storm Wiki:Discussion

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== Merge Mercenary Camps and Watchtower ==
{{Talk move|Talk:Mercenary camps|Merge}}

Right now the page for Watchtower is pretty tiny right now and I don't see the page for Mercenary Camps getting much much bigger so I propose that these two are merged as "Secondary Objectives". By consolidating information, we can more effectively give concise information on all topics about the game and to create a nice framework going forward on this wiki. [[User:Evilandrex|EvilAndrex]] ([[User talk:Evilandrex|talk]]) 09:24, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
:I don't think Secondary Objectives is really that clear. Maybe Neutral Objectives or Neutrals? --[[User:Lancey6]] ([[User talk:Lancey6|talk]]) 09:46, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering if anybody knows the offical Heroes of the Storm Release ?
I found some information here:
[http://heroesofthestorm-moba.de/heroes-of-the-storm-release-datum-erscheinung-termin-wann-kommt-das-hots-moba-raus/ Heroes of the Storm Release]

== Updated Heroes Lists ==
Can we get some updated hero information, sites like [http://born2storm.com/heroes/ Born2Storm.com] have good information, let's group together and get a great list on here too! 
I have found this page [http://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Heroes Heroes Page] but it wasn't easy to find, could we get it into the navigation do you think? -- [[User:EarlHarr]] ([[User talk:EarlHarr|talk]]) 12:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

== Links to Hero data on pages? ==

I think we should provide links to Hero data pages from their wiki pages, so that users could access and edit it quickly in case of an update or change. On the downside, it would make it easier to vandalize, but that's a risk that comes with them being on a wiki anyway. Thoughts? --[[User:Lancey6]] ([[User talk:Lancey6|talk]]) 19:32, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

== Hero Pricing ==

It would be very helpful to have hero pricing available on their respective pages. Both gold and real money prices would allow for viewers to know how much to spend to obtain heroes, without having to log onto HotS or going to other sites.{{unsigned2|15:40, 25 June 2014‎|Jwendt45}}

It would be nice to see a history of the balance changes that each hero has gone through, similar to how the dota wiki does it. (Sorry I've never posted on a wiki thing before, don't know what I am doing)

== Talent & Skill tables ==

I would love to update the talents and skillsets on some heroes, but I can't figure out how to access those tables. <br>
Could someone explain how to do this? &mdash; [[Special:Contributions/195.148.26.10|195.148.26.10]] ([[User talk:195.148.26.10|talk]]) 07:47, 25 March 2015‎ (UTC)

:Same as above. I was watching HGC this weekend and noticed some talents were out of date (a patch or 2 back) and would love to update them, but when I go to edit, it just says it's from the "Talent Template" and offers me the choice to edit the template, but no way to edit the actual talents. &mdash; [[User:Hesjingixen|Hesjingixen]] ([[User talk:Hesjingixen|talk]]) 17:10, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

::You need to go to their Data page to edit skills and talent info. It is {{wp|Wikipedia:Transclusion|transcluded}} into the page of each hero. e.g. Arthas' data: [[Data:Champions/Arthas]].

::<pre><nowiki>{{ Hero infobox datapage = Data:Champions/Arthas }}</nowiki></pre>

::&mdash; [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 18:57, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Talent tables would look a lot better if the talent icon was separated from the text.A single talent box would look like this: |X|Text| with X being the icon. <br>I don't know much about tables but if it's possible I would definitely like to learn it. [[User:Vampirered39|Vampirered39]] ([[User talk:Vampirered39|talk]]) 13:11, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

== Add Release Date Field to Hero Biography Infoboxes ==

Wiki Contributors: You need to start adding in RELEASE DATE information for ALL heroes. This is literally essential information, and should never have been overlooked. Hero pages are like biographies - and bio's have DATE OF BIRTH information.

Every player at some point will ask themselves questions like: "I wonder when the next hero will be released?", or "I wonder who the oldest/newest heroes are?"

Guess what? You can't answer these questions without a DATE FIELD being inluded in EVERY SINGLE hero biography. ALL Wikipedia Biographies include dates - from dates of birth, to dates of creation, etc. START ADDING DATES. This is archiving 101 people. [[User:JustLetMeEdit|JustLetMeEdit]] ([[User talk:JustLetMeEdit|talk]]) 02:12, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

:While I agree that dates should be added, the way you are forcing this, is not the way. The way Wikis work is by collaborative effort, as in, if you see something is missing, add it yourself and not by telling others what you want added. Also, adding blank lines of information to an article is bad and I reverted all of them. If you yourself do not know the date, don't add an empty line. And finnally, the place where you added the "Release date: ______" is not the correct spot either. It should have been the last line of the lead and written in prose, not as a standalone paragraph at the top of the place, disregarding other hatnote templates. --[[User:Celellach|Celellach]] ([[User talk:Celellach|talk]]) 10:54, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

::Agreed: Wikis do work by collaborative effort - everyone contributes what they can in order to complete a task far greater than any person could do alone. My recommendation '''is exactly that'''. Some people contribute by adding artwork, lore, grammar, or references to already-added information. Some people (like myself) contribute by telling other people what to add - otherwise known as management. Groups of people do not usually operate with significant levels of organization, and so important details are left completely forgotten (like dates). This is when management acts to correct the mistake before it spins wildly out of control and causes problems. It may sound rude or high-and-mighty, but it is simply a required necessity.

::I have already done this - by myself - for a completely different game called Warframe. If you check their official Wiki site, you will find that ~62% of the 'Heroes' have "Release Date" information. How come the other 38% don't? Because it took 2.8 '''years''' after the game released before I started playing and - in that time - no one else ever thought to add release date information. It took me numerous hours to parse through '''hundreds''' of almost '''3-year-old''' references and, in the end, I only managed to find accurate dates for most of them. 

::If I had not come along, Warframe would probably still, to this day, not know when their Heroes were released. The point isn't to sound conceited - it is to point out that if you simply delete my efforts on this Wiki, and wait around for "someone else to do the work", it will '''NEVER GET DONE.''' That is why management is required. That is why we need to have a 'blank line' of some sort for people to fill in. Everyone should already know how compelling 'blank boxes' are to humans; they will tell you practically anything you want to know if you pose your question in the form of a fill-in-the-blank. But if you don't have that blank, they will NEVER ANSWER YOU, because you NEVER ASKED THE QUESTION.

::I am a 2-day old player as of now, and I simply don't want to dedicate hours of my time to looking up information other people may be able to answer much easier than I. You guys know the game; you guys probably know how best to find this information. For example: Blizzard press-releases, forum posts, etc.

::Heroes of the Storm has been played since Jan. 13, 2015. In those 194+ days and 39 Hero releases, no one has bothered to keep track of even '''one''' single date. It is so easy to keep track of them as each Hero is released - if we begin the process '''now'''. But if we wait 3 years, the task will become almost impossible.

::Let's turn this boat around now before it gets lost at sea. 

::P.S. I only noticed on re-reading that you mentioned adding date information on the last line of a lead in prose. I take your meaning as example:

::"...Leoric was released on July 21, 2015"

::While I agree this is the best way to record the information, journalistic-ally, I personally believe a Field > Value method is the most usable form for this information. For example:

::"Release Date: July 21, 2015"   or   "Released: 2015/07/21"   as per international date format. The reasoning, as mentioned, is that this format is much more easily accessed for data compilation (harvesting/screen scraping) and can be automated. Manually inputting a sentence-structure date format is unnecessarily difficult to use, and there is no potential for validation rules; i.e.: 2015/07/21 vs 07/21/2015. Wikipedia uses this methodology already in their biographical pages (which is what Hero pages are most similar to). Because Wikipedia uses a Field > Value entry method, it is able to automatically calculate current ages of living people. This would not be possible with an end-of-sentence prose entry.

::My apologies if I come off brash or rude - it isn't meant that way, just like my capitalization isn't real 'yelling'. I'm not trying to nitpick the method of Date entry either: I honestly believe adding it as part of the Infobox is very important for people like me who like to automatically screen-scrape data, and pre-formatted boxes makes this much easier.[[User:JustLetMeEdit|JustLetMeEdit]] ([[User talk:JustLetMeEdit|talk]]) 02:12, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
:::I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree that some people should be mangers. Contributing is done by adding new stuff or cleaning existing things, its not done by telling others that new stuff should be added or existing things should be changed. While its true that I might know the dates better than you, I'm still doing this on my own free time and I'm not getting paid for it, as such, I tend to add things on my list and not things on other people's list. If you think something is missing, the best place to say so is on the talk page of the relevant page, where others can see what is you want added, why its important and when you asked for it (to make sure its still relevant). As for the infobox problem, I agree it needs to be more edit-friendly. --[[User:Celellach|Celellach]] ([[User talk:Celellach|talk]]) 22:07, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

== Asking for Help ==

'''My question is:''' Where do you have to go to make edits to a Hero's infobox?

For example on [[Leoric]]'s page I cannot edit/add values to his infobox. I tried to "Edit Source", but quickly realized there is some transclusion going on. Following the trail of bread crumbs led me to the [[Template:Hero_infobox|Hero Infobox]] template page, which led me to the [[Template:Hero_data|Hero Data]] template page. I tried adding in support for a "date" parameter, however this also did absolutely nothing.

Finally I found what I thought was the correct page: [[Data:Champions/Leoric|Leoric's Champion Data Page]], however changing ANY of the parameters on this page does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Leoric's infobox. Why?


::'''SOLUTION:''' So it seems the [[Data:Champions/Leoric|Leoric's Champion Data Page]] '''is''' actually the correct place to modify information. I don't know why it didn't update automatically before, but I checked his page today and it magically includes the Release Date information I added yesterday. It seems that making changes to a Hero's data page takes approx. 10 minutes or so to actually update properly.

::For Others: If you would like to edit a Hero's Infobox, there is an index of them on the following page: http://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Category:Imported_hero_data. [[User:JustLetMeEdit|JustLetMeEdit]] ([[User talk:JustLetMeEdit|talk]]) 22:57, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
:::I just added the release date to the hero infobox earlier today, so that's why it didn't update before. [[User:Cruseydr|Cruseydr]] ([[User talk:Cruseydr|talk]]) 04:32, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
::::I actually think the Data:Champions pages are the wrong place for that. If/when the data import will finally be fixed and no manual editing will be needed, those pages should be edit-protected (so only the bot should edit them once a patch). All values not part of the automatic import should be added to the individual hero pages so others can add/edit them. That however, will require the infobox itself to be cleaned up so it will be easier to maintain and edit. --[[User:Celellach|Celellach]] ([[User talk:Celellach|talk]]) 13:13, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::What do you mean with the bot-editing? Is this still happening?--[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 18:24, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

== numbers missing everywhere ==

i know that the boss becomes stronger the more time has passed on a map, same for units like dragon knight. im not sure though if this also applies to stuff like siege mercs? how big is the hp/damage increase per minute? 
how fast are towers regeneration ammunation?
i heard rumors that the first golem in mines is limited in strenght and that collecting more than 60 skulls will only weaken your opponents (half value).

this wiki is full of unnecessary stuff like "Map Layout" "Announcer Quotes" but whenever i want to look up stuff that could affect my gameplay / tactics (and i really mean elementary stuff like minion HP / DMG) its not on here

:Something that is "unnecessary" to you, might be relevant to someone else. This is a community-edited wiki, if the information is missing, go ahead an add it. --[[User:Celellach|Celellach]] ([[User talk:Celellach|talk]]) 10:37, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

== Skins/Mounts - mechanics ==

You should add Skins/mounts to the mechanics list all the ones in game ones taken down to be worked on and ones that haven't been released yet not sure if I'm putting this in the right place {{unsigned2|01:27, 16 August 2015‎|Slayer1737}}

== "Blizzard Entertainment" and "franchise" ==
Since these are standard on many pages, I thought I'd post my thoughts here for discussion before sailing in and making changes.

The start of many pages includes a line like "...from the Blizzard Entertainment ''Warcraft'' franchise." Firstly, all heroes, battlegrounds, etc, which are from franchises are from Blizzard Entertainment franchises; because all franchises featured in ''Heroes'' are Blizzard Entertainment franchise. It therefore seems unnecessary to say "the Blizzard Entertainment ''Warcraft'' franchise" when we could say "the ''Warcraft'' franchise". The latter seems perfectly adequate, and the former a little redundant. ''Heroes'' was previously called "Blizzard All Stars", and that's still basically the concept; Blizzard is the source for everything.

Secondly, I would suggest replacing "franchise" with "universe". The reason is that while "franchise" speaks to a business model or intellectual property, "universe" speaks to the world and lore the hero/etc is taken from. Thrall comes from the ''Warcraft'' ''universe'', with its own deity-like creators, the Twisting Nether, the Elemental Plane, its own concepts of the nature of life and death, magic and the elements. In contrast, Valla comes from the ''Diablo'' universe, with its Angels and Demons, its Lords of Sin and unique, strange magics (but no Titans or elemental lords); while Tracer comes from a  futuristic Earth/real universe, albeit one where all sorts of sci-fi things are possible; and Raynor comes from an even further future real universe, which may or may not fit at all with the events of ''Overwatch''. Each has its own worlds, mythology, and physical and magical constants. The word "franchise" doesn't really convey this, but I think "universe" does. 

The result would be something like "Thrall, the Warchief of the Horde, is a melee assassin hero from the ''Warcraft'' universe." Thoughts? -- [[User:Taohinton|Taohinton]] ([[User talk:Taohinton|talk]]) 21:07, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

: I agree with you, "universe" has more sense than "franchise" or "Blizzard Entertainment franchise". --[[User:Kandooww|Kandooww]] ([[User talk:Kandooww|talk]]) 11:49, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

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-- [[Special:Contributions/111.93.250.130|111.93.250.130]] 6:34, 29 February 2016

== Help Making a New Page  ==
Can someone help me by providing me with some instructions on a easy way to make a page? &mdash; [[User:Sshezow|Sshezow]] ([[User_talk:Sshezow|talk]]) 21:03, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

:GamePedia is powered by MediaWiki, so you can start with the tutorials here: [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Editing Help:Editing] → [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page Help:Starting a new page] &mdash; [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 12:47, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

== Infoboxes==
What happened to the battleground infobox? They look broken on the pages... See [[Dragon Shire]]. --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 14:55, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

== Request on the Admin noticeboard ==

Perhaps this was missed? [[Heroes_of_the_Storm_Wiki:Admin_noticeboard#Request for a change]] — [[User:Game widow|Game widow]] <sup><small>([[User_talk:Game widow|talk]])</small></sup> 19:52, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

== Armor ==
Can we add the Armor to the Heroes Infobox? I dont know how to do it... The Template is kind of confusing... --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 07:08, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

:I added a new <code>armor</code> parameter to the hero [[Template:Hero data|data]] and [[Template:Hero infobox|infobox]] templates. &mdash; [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:08, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
::Thank you very much! Can you also add a parameter that allows you to write "10 Armor", "10 Spell Armor" or "10 Physical Armor"? 
::Maybe you can help me out with two things: 
::#"Mana" is ´the source of Valeeras Spells on her page instead of "Energy". Can I change it?
::#The Data pages were made when the stats scaled numerical. Now we have a percentage-based scaling. However, when I add a "%" to the Data page, an error appears on the page. Its the same with "Pre-Release" (see [[Tracer]])... Anyway to fix this?--[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 06:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

:::I think including "Armor" in the value is redundant. I think a value followed by type (or nothing if it is all-around coverage) will suffice. It should be assumed that armor values are percentage based. This should be covered in the [[Armor]] page.
:::The different types of armor are:
:::* Physical
:::* Spell
:::* All (blank)
:::* Special cases should be in parenthesis. See: [[Data:Champions/Greymane]]
:::Not sure how to change "Mana" to "Energy" for [[Valeera]]. This is the same case for [[Zarya]]. I assume that "Mana" is just the general term for any of hero's power. &mdash; [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 13:14, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
::::Thank you very much!--[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 06:44, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

== Why the hell are level 20 numbers on heroes getting removed? ==
Everywhere, it just says ''<code>xxx (+4% / level)</code>'' instead of ''<code>yyy (xxx + 4% / level)</code>''.

What's the point of removing useful information? &mdash; [[Special:Contributions/79.122.72.49|79.122.72.49]] ([[User talk:79.122.72.49|talk]]) 18:48, 8 March 2017‎ (UTC)

:Can you link to a Hero that violates this standard? &mdash; [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 19:45, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
::Oh my... I am so sorry. I started working on this wiki a couple of weeks ago and I noticed that most talents and abilities were horrible outdated. Most of the cooldown, the trees, the mana costs and damages were outdated. I didnt know that the "yyy" were the lvl 20 numbers (and I think it is nowhere stated that they are...). I also dont know where to get those lvl 20 numbers. Most guides use the base damage... Can you show me how to get them and I will readd them? Maybe we should also state that they are the lvl 20 numbers in some way? --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 06:43, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I created a [https://jsfiddle.net/MrPolywhirl/x0nyut40/embedded/result/ damage calculator] a while ago. You input the base damage, multiplier and level; and it calculates the max damage. &mdash; [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 13:30, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
::::Wow, nice, thank you! I will use it! However, I think overall this Wiki is a high hurdle for newcomers... Why do we add a lvl 20 damage and not say it anywhere that those numbers refer to lvl 20? Why do we add the Heroes data on a Template if the Template is only used on the Heroes page? Why cant we at least write on each Heroes page (hidden) where to edit his/her data? I had a hard time at the beginning and I have the feeling we wont get any newcomers with those obstacles... As seen on this recent discussion on reddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/NexusNewbies/comments/5wmzuy/hots_wiki_help_with_editing_talents/ HoTS wiki help with editing talents?] --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 14:19, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::And another question: Why do we add the damage of abilities based on lvl 20 but not the health or the basic attack damage of that hero? Isnt that kind of confusing? And why not lvl 30 as the maximum possible? --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 15:07, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::The max team level in a game is 30. You do not gain anymore levels that far into a game. Also, it is very rare for a game to go that long. &mdash; [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 04:06, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, thats my question. Why not give the minimum damage (lvl1) and the maximum damage (lvl30)? What about the health and the basic attack damage? Why lvl 1 here? --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 05:30, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::''"Why lvl 1 here?"''
::::::::The low value is the raw damage; that is not level 1. Level 1 already applies a 4% scaling to the base damage (<code>1.04 × base damage</code>). &mdash;[[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 12:06, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::Okay, now I get it. But how do you get those Informations as a new editor? Or how would anyone know that those numbers are for lvl 20? And again: What do the patch changes refer to? Base Damage/Health or Lvl 1 Damage/Health? --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 14:03, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

==Mechanics==
Hey, can an admin please change the following things on the front page "Mechanics":
#Change [[fort]]s to [[structure]]s
#Add [[Brawls]], [[Mount]]s, [[Cosmetic Item]]s
#Remove Talents. Its a dead end page.
#Remove Watchtowers
#Mabe change the Name "mechanics" into "content"?
Thanks! And maybe add them to the navigation bar on the left side...? --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 06:06, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::Please? --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 18:45, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
:::I cant change it :( --[[User:Kandooww|Kandooww]] ([[User talk:Kandooww|talk]]) 19:30, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

== Renaming Heroes Brawl history page ==

I'd like to rename the Heroes Brawl history page to a much clearer name.
Instead of "List of previous brawls of the week" I would rename it to "Heroes Brawl/History" to make it more clear, and shorter in title.
[[User:TheGamer765|TheGamer765]] ([[User talk:TheGamer765|talk]]) 18:24, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

== New request ==

There is a site which hosts all Quotes / Voice lines for each Hero.
Should we make Quote pages for the Heroes, and make all Hero interaction voice lines for heroes?
[[User:TheGamer765|TheGamer765]] ([[User talk:TheGamer765|talk]]) 17:38, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
::I would love to see that. But seems like a lot of work :) --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 18:33, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
::: I've made an initial page for Zarya, and included it on the main page for her. [[User:TheGamer765|TheGamer765]] ([[User talk:TheGamer765|talk]]) 18:59, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
:::: Created article templates "Boilerplates" to help creating new articles, and a sample data page for help creating a new hero's datapage. [[User:TheGamer765|TheGamer765]] ([[User talk:TheGamer765|talk]]) 20:04, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
::::: On a general note: "energy regen per level" and "max energy per level" comes from the time those data had linear scaling. Now they are % and no longer needed. Maybe remove them? And also: Is there any hero that has "splash damage per level"? Additionaly heroesnexus is down.. so maybe remove all those things? Maybe we could simplify it.... --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 05:49, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::: I removed those columns from the data page, but it's needed to be also removed from the Template itself. [[User:TheGamer765|TheGamer765]] ([[User talk:TheGamer765|talk]]) 06:07, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
::::::: I edited the Template to not include the old data. [[User:TheGamer765|TheGamer765]] ([[User talk:TheGamer765|talk]]) 06:39, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
== Renaming Pop references page ==
I'd like to rename the Pop references page to a much clearer name. Instead of "List of pop culture references in Heroes of the Storm" I would rename it to "Easter eggs in Heroes of the Storm" to make it more clear, and shorter in title. [[User:TheGamer765|TheGamer765]] ([[User talk:TheGamer765|talk]]) 19:02, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

== Don't remove scaling stats from infobox! ==
Someone recently removed "Scaling" from Infobox including the values in parenthesis (+X% per level) in the base value box. I could see the latter increasing the clutter, but we need the scaling shown somehow since heroes like Varian has non-standard (3% per level) scaling on health stats. Can someone edit the templates (or tell me how to) to bring back the scaling box? Otherwise, I'm going to add them in parenthesis after the base value. --[[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 10:36, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

: I'm currently working on revamping the outdated infobox template. I removed the scaling section for now, as it was rather inconsistent. Some heroes had the scaling data in one format, some in another format, and about half of them didn't have any scaling data at all. From what I understand, the vast majority of heroes scale at 4%, with a few exceptions. Perhaps we could just add a footnote for the few stats that don't scale at 4%? I'm open to suggestions; we could add a separate section for scaling data if that would be the ideal way to present the data.

: In any event, I would ask that you don't add the scaling data in parentheses after the base value. Having any non-numerical value on certain sections of the data page causes an ugly error message directly under the page title, which I'm trying to get rid of.

: [[User:MetricTrout|MetricTrout]] ([[User talk:MetricTrout|talk]]) 14:06, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

:: I see, that's a good thing then. It would be nice to have the scaling values (%) for at least max health, health regen and basic attack damage(don't need splash damage or energy/mana regen). My suggestion would be to either put them into their own section like they used to be or right next to the base value like so: |basevalue|scaling-%|. It is a small problem to add the values for the heroes they are missing. --[[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 14:30, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

== Heroes with non-mana resources show abilities that cost mana. ==

Abilities for heroes that do not use mana still show mana as the cost for abilities.  See [[Lt._Morales#Abilities|Lt. Morales's Abilities]] for example.  She uses Energy but her Healing Beam shows a cost of 6 mana.  I tried to find what generates the word "mana" in an effort to create a condition for inserting the Resource property, but I couldn't pin down where the sausage is made, and I'm a noob to all this.  I sincerely doubt I'm the first one to bring this up, but it's really poking my OCD, and some naive part of me believes it can be solved without upending the wiki.  Someone shut me down quick!
::I agree, it should be changed. But I dont know how...--[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 10:03, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

== Concept drop or keep and deletetion of a page  ==

So i found the [[Hero/list]] page by accident and i am thinking of a few options: since that page conributes nothing useful (we already have a hero-price and hero-releases page with not outdated prices and not only 40 heroes), should we just delete it?<br>
But i have never seen the Damage/Utility/Survivability/Complexity numbers on the wiki ([https://us.battle.net/heroes/en-gb/heroes/blaze/ Blizzard's Blaze page with these "stats"]) on any heroes, should we use these? IMO they aren't that useful and pretty subjective.
And if yes, should it be on new parameters (or combined parameter like 6/7/9/7) on the Data pages? Or just like a table?
[[User:Niutp|Niutp]] ([[User talk:Niutp|talk]]) 22:19, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

== Export Heroes Data ==
I would love to add the [[Health]] and [[Basic Attack]] Damage of all Heroes to those pages (like on the [[Collision Radius]] page. Is it possible to export those numbers of each Hero from its Data Page and add it to those pages? --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 15:23, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Do you really want a 80 * 2 table(s)? Yeah it's possible. I am still searching how can i format the resulting table properly.
[[User:Niutp|Niutp]] ([[User talk:Niutp|talk]]) 20:27, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
::Yes, something like this would be nice: [https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/5u6bkw/heroes_listed_in_order_from_most_to_least_hp_as/ Heroes listed in order from most to least HP as of 2017-2-14]. But since the numbers change with every patch, it would be nice to just export them from their Data Page :D .--[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 04:35, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

== D.Va page problem ==

The [[D.Va#Abilities|ability list on the D.Va page]] has disappeared. I tried to figure out the cause of the problem, but unsuccessfully, so can anyone who is familiar with the representation of a Hero data look at the page? [[User:Phoe nixx|Phoe nixx]] ([[User talk:Phoe nixx|talk]]) 11:03, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

::It appears that the page tried to use [[Data:D.Va (Pilot)]] as the data page and since there are no Abilities listed it showed nothing. I redefined the data page to the original, so it should be fine now. -- [[User:Taqx2|taQtaQ]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 15:22, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

== Font Colors? ==

I was editing the [[Ping]] page, and wanted to change the colors of <''hero''>, <''allied hero''>, and <''enemy hero''> similar to how it appears in HotS. Is there a way to change it? Or even an alternative. Because I want it to look cleaner and kinda don't like how the <> looks. Thanks!
:--[[User:Goldernetriever|Goldernetriever]] ([[User talk:Goldernetriever|talk]]) 10:59, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

:-----------
:I think the game uses a different font and color. Btw, your angle brackets were off, because you used <pre>''<hero''> instead of ''<hero>''</pre> , so the first angle bracket didn't get Italic-ised. If you like the current style (one of it), it is possible to create an "embedded css", so you only have to use span classes, not copy this long thing every time. Without outlines (shadows), it would be fine to just copy paste it. [[User:Niutp|Niutp]] ([[User talk:Niutp|talk]]) 17:27, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

::Thanks! I guess I have to be an admin or something to do the embedded css? (Or am I doing it wrong? Honestly I'm kinda lost) I guess I'll do the ping page sometime later. --[[User:Goldernetriever|Goldernetriever]] ([[User talk:Goldernetriever|talk]]) 18:42, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

== Inconsistency between the ability numbers and the vital numbers on Heroes' pages ==

There is an inconsistency between numbers on data pages. The ability and talent numbers (damage, healing, and other scaling stats) are shown for level 0 everywhere as far as I'm concerned, while, in many heroes, vital stats (Health, Health Regen, Mana, Attack Damage) are displayed for level 1. Should we make all the numbers viewed like they are at level 0? [[User:Phoe nixx|Phoe nixx]] ([[User talk:Phoe nixx|talk]]) 19:24, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
::In my opinion, we should use the numbers used by Blizzard in their official Patch Notes and Hero Pages. It is very confusing otherwise... --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 04:13, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I think we should be using "level 0" values for health and regeneration as well. Afterall, the damage, health and regeneration values in patch notes and in-game client are given as level 0 values. Moreover, most scaling related things written on this wiki assume level 0 values as the base values and I have already been changing the values to match that every time I update the hero data. [[User:Taqx2|taQtaQ]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 16:10, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
::::: I belive we should standardize the data pages, the way you did with the newer heroes like [[Yrel]], Phoe nixx. By the way, where did you get the abilities informations about Type, Scalling, Affect, Targeting, Properties, Channel time, Cast time and Radius? [[User:Senescalzin|''<span style="color:#0000FF; background:##008000">Senescalzin</span>]] [[User talk:Senescalzin|<span style="color:#008000; background:##008000">Talk with me!</span>]]  19:24, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

:::::: Try to figure out from the xmls in notepad++, by hand. It is in a relly annoying format [[User_talk:Rmkane#RE_2]] and https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/7u1two/how_can_i_datamine_ptr_stuff/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/3jb6mk/i_made_a_website_where_you_can_easily_listen_to/ <br>(really laggy incoming): I personally export the whole "mods" folder onto an external hdd (even with an ssd, it is really laggy for wIndows) with CascStorage/Ladik's Casc Viewer.<br>It is ~25!! GB, ~300 000 !! small files including assets, ogg sounds, ui elements, dds, properities ... Then i browse it with an indexing fast searching program, "Everything". Or try to use the inbuilt search function for quick ones. [[User:Niutp|Niutp]] ([[User talk:Niutp|talk]]) 15:35, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

::::::: Hi, ChaosOS here the Math of the Storm guy. Dropping by to say I'm interested in intervening in the wiki to help improve accuracy - to start, pages should use level 0 pages. If you have questions on reading the XML files hit me up on twitter or on reddit. There's also some other issues I'm interested in fixing, for example Cassia's Lightning Fury scales at 4.5%, not 4% per level. [[User:ChaosOS|ChaosOS]] 10:08, 30 September 2018

== Trivia sections ==
Hey there,
I want to start a discussion about our "Trivia sections". We could split it up or something. Right now, it is filled with:
*Realy nice information: like [[Kel'Thuzad]] owns a cat named Mr. Bigglesworth, who appears during his owner's dance animation. This is a reference to the cat owned by Dr. Evil in the Austin Powers series.)
*Information about their skins: Chromie - The Iron Timewalker Chromie skin resembles a member of the Nightmare Dragonflight.)
*Information about their Quotes: One of Whitemane's gag quotes references the Spanish Inquisition from Monty Python's Flying Circus (October 1969).
*Information about their abilities: Maiev's level 1 Talent Naisha's Memento references Naisha, the Warden's lieutenant who was murdered by Illidan Stormrage in the Tomb of Sargeras during the Warcraft III campaign.
*Character connections:  Chromie was in attendance to Garrosh's trial after his arrest at the end of the Alliance-Horde War in War Crimes (May 2014).
*Biography:  At one point, Alexstrasza was the damsel in distress after the Second War due to being kidnapped and enslaved by the Horde. However, she was liberated by Rhonin, Falstad, and Vereesa Windrunner.
*"Useless information":  
**Whitemane shares her surname with Jurrix and a certain amount of night elves.
**Whitemane, as her name suggests, is the only human hero with a chest length silver-white mane.
**Sylvanas dislikes being bossed around at certain cases.
** Illidan is the first Warcraft hero with a black mane.

I suggest to reduce the "useless" information to a minimum. Maybe we can also add the "Information about their Quotes" to their Quotes page? Like on the [[Malthael/Quotes]] Page? What are your thoughts on this topic? --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 09:53, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
:Newish here, but I've been trimming through some of the trivia sections and I agree. There's a ton of useless information in a lot of these, some outright wrong or speculative or stating the obvious. I'd even argue the biography info should be kept to the biography section, which in a lot of cases is incomplete, unless it's a really niche thing that wouldn't get mentioned.

:I'm all for adding explanations of the quotes to the respective quote articles, I think that's a good format. Given the differences between quotes I wanted to get a go ahead, I can run through the SC ones pretty quick. I think that's a good format to do it and keeps it from being flooded. I'm curious if there should be a subsection about the origins of abilities as well, I added a ton to Tychus but I worry that may be flooding the trivia section, the information is valuable I just don't know where else it would go. --[[User:Subsourian|Subsourian]] ([[User talk:Subsourian|talk]]) 15:30, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

:This is really getting out of control, indeed. In my opinion, the only informations that should be on the trivia section are: the really nice information, information about their quotes (should be moved to the quote article?), occasionally skin information (nothing like the ones in [[Whitemane]] article: this skin changes the weapon color to X, this skin changes the weapon color to Y, etc.) and information about their abilities. The Character connections and Biography are irrevelant to this game, since the heroes come from different periods in time (ex: Thrall, Jaina are from their WC3 appearance, Yrel is from Warlords of Draenor, Cassia cames from D2, etc) and useless information should just be removed. [[User:Senescalzin|''<span style="color:#0000FF; background:##008000">Senescalzin</span>]] [[User talk:Senescalzin|<span style="color:#008000; background:##008000">Talk with me!</span>]]  15:40, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
---
:When I first started putting in quotes, I included a background column (like on old Tassadar and Lt. Morales quotes) that was basically copy-pasted from the Quotes lore on Reddit posts written by User:Subsourian. I stopped when I couldn't find one of these posts for the Overwatch heroes, and when Chrome changed the look of the audio player and it made the tables look messy. But I'm down for putting it back. I'm thinking if we could put it in a separate /Quotes/Background page so it looks cleaner or just in the /Quotes page itself. 
::--[[User:Goldernetriever|Goldernetriever]] ([[User talk:Goldernetriever|talk]])

::Separating might be a bad idea, I find users get frustrated when pages get subdivided too much. For separating quotes from the main article it makes sense but further dividing quotes into descriptions makes it a bit of a navigation mess. Better to look into finding a way so the quotes aren't a mess on Chrome, I can do some testing. As for descriptions it's best to just fill in what we can, I planned to fill in SC and maybe take a shot at Warcraft. Better to present as much information as possible for some characters than not have information at all. --[[User:Subsourian|Subsourian]] ([[User talk:Subsourian|talk]]) 05:24, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
:::A couple of month ago, I added the Lore Trivia from Reddits "Lore of Braxxis" and "Lore of Warhead Junction" posts. [https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6yvohj/lore_of_braxis_holdout_battleground_lore/dmrjm4g/?context=0 I asked Subsourian] and he gave his ok....--[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 07:58, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
::::Given I'm the one suggesting all this, I think it's implied I think it's ok we do this. :P --[[User:Subsourian|Subsourian]] ([[User talk:Subsourian|talk]]) 22:30, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::Oh my god, I didn't see it :-D So obvious! Thx for your great work! --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 12:54, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

:::Good point, I think adding an extra 300px would be the best option. I'll try to fill for the Overwatch heroes. (Also, is it Background or Description? Malthael/Quotes has Background, Morales/Quotes has Description) [[User:Goldernetriever|Goldernetriever]] ([[User talk:Goldernetriever|talk]])

::::I had based it off of the Artanis one. But I think Background fits better. I'll start chipping through the ones I know of. If you need a resource to check against, as LemonBaby mentioned [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yeAhfrDT2WkM2aEHAqCxaRdzwK_xXRsamCAHdWSuD1E/edit?usp=sharing this is where the previous ones were pulled from]. Doesn't help for anything other than Ana though but I think the Overwatch ones shouldn't be too hard to fill, compared to the big three there isn't much lore to pull from. --[[User:Subsourian|Subsourian]] ([[User talk:Subsourian|talk]]) 05:29, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

:Looking at the latest few released heroes there are a lot of "[hero] is the Xth such hero in the game" type of bullet points in their Trivia sections. Reading that "Yrel is the first Draenei hero in the game." can be a somewhat interesting piece if information, but I have hard time imagining there are people who say "Hey, Yrel was the 38th Warcraft hero added in the game, that's so cool." The latter is not very relevant or unique information, I would look for in the trivia sections. -- [[User:Taqx2|taQtaQ]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 03:20, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
::I second this. Knowing x is the 5th night elf her is something the reader can imply from the release dates and we don't need to note. Unless anyone objects I'll start trimming any that aren't stuff like "first x kind of hero." --[[User:Subsourian|Subsourian]] ([[User talk:Subsourian|talk]]) 21:51, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

:Bringing this back up, this is a solidified thing right? We're keeping biography stuff in the biography section, and keeping trivia to stuff related to the game itself? --[[User:Subsourian|Subsourian]] ([[User talk:Subsourian|talk]]) 20:49, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
::I think so, yes. [[User:Goldernetriever|Goldernetriever]] ([[User talk:Goldernetriever|talk]])
:::Alright, the same guy who added a lot of the fluff seems to be readding it, so I just want to make sure that I'm not in the wrong trimming it again. I don't mind sweeping through every so often and keeping it ''Heroes'' relevant I just need to make sure everyone's cool with the line. --[[User:Subsourian|Subsourian]] ([[User talk:Subsourian|talk]]) 16:29, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

*Just to clarify things:
**Trivia section will only contain: 
**Dance/taunt references.
**First debute of hero (in their game and lore books).
**Their voice actor.
**Abilities that contains references to their franchise.
**Some of the hero count (?), this need more discussion. In my opinion, like Subsourian said, it is not so relevant say that one hero is the 40th hero of Warcraft, the eigtheen support hero from the game, the eight female support, etc. Of course, like I said, this point needs more discussion.
**Skins references.
**Informations about Quotes are going to be moved to Quote articles (?).
[[User:Senescalzin|''<span style="color:#0000FF; background:##008000">Senescalzin</span>]] [[User talk:Senescalzin|<span style="color:#008000; background:##008000">Talk with me!</span>]]  17:27, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
:I agree with the list. My big point of debate was moving any biography information to the biography section. I know old policy was to keep biography info to the Heroes Blizzard descriptions, but since they almost always don't give a full character story, and in cases like Stukov's have been outright wrong, I personally think if something like "x was in this manga with y" or "genji is from this place and is this age" is important enough to note in trivia, it should go in the biography section. I've been expanding a bunch of the SC ones to get the character's whole story, but I know that was a bit contradictory from a few older guides I saw. Though as mentioned, a bunch of the previous biography trivia from before wouldn't even be notable in such a section.

:The point made earlier on hero count, in opinion what was stated earlier is a good metric. Yrel being the first draenei, Raynor being part of the first batch of heroes, Uther being the first Warcraft human support, that stuff I think is worth the note. But "this is the 14th support, the rest being ____" I don't think is super necessary. I've been trimming some but as mentioned by Taqx2 people can imply a lot by the release date. Really anything that makes them stand out from the bunch.

:And yeah quote trivia I've been moving to the quotes article, with the background section there's no need to clog trivia with it. --[[User:Subsourian|Subsourian]] ([[User talk:Subsourian|talk]]) 21:19, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

== Themed Abilities/Animations Defined ==

Think the themed abilities or animations for each skin should be noted somewhere as to what exactly is different. Especially seeing as Blizzard doesn't do anything like that, and sometimes it's only one ability or animation, and we'd be the first place someone might look for to see if they can get a hint as to what's different. [[User:Meganerd18|Meganerd18]] ([[User talk:Meganerd18|talk]]) 20:31, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

== Problems with points in Ranked ==

Hello everyone. I have a problem with a points in a Ranked. I won 2 games and got no points. I don't know why. And I really want to get them. Please, help me to solve this problem.
:Wiki's are not a very good place for individual troubleshooting, as this is more of an archive than a communication medium. You are more likely to get a solution to your specific issue in the [https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/ Official Forums]. -- [[User:Taqx2|taQtaQ]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 00:18, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

== What has happened with literally all data? ==

The abilities and talents sections on heroes have become completely invisible to me, as if all that data was empty. It cannot be found on neither the hero page nor the data page nor even in the source code. I have tried clearing all my cookies yet the problem persists on several browsers as well as on my phone. The only way to see the data plainly is to ''edit source'' on the data page. All the information is still there, it's just not visible anywhere the site tries to display it. The heck is going on?
:There was a database migration around a week ago and it appears to have broken our ability and talent display. We have sent a ticket to the gamepedia support and are waiting for a response. -- [[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 09:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

== I think maybe we could change the Front Color to make it more readable. ==

Servus, everyone!

I like this WiKi Page that offers way more information of the game we love than the official HotS website.
But I find the contrast of the background and the Front is too high, which makes it tiring to read for such informative contents.
So I‘ve checked the website of HotS and find out they actually using light grey and blue for the main context and only limited use of white fronts, for example only some subtitles.

So what I suggest is to change All the Front in Light Grey at the beginning, and change gradually for different colors for different level of titles later, if it‘s possible.

I know it would not be the main contribution to make the community here bigger, but I think it is some traits for the website look more inviting for ppl who newly discovered it and want to read a lot at the beginning.

Thanks for your time.

Karnickel

== Voice of Hogger ==

I need to know who is doing the voice for Hogger? I remember some guy saying that it's David Lodge, but I'm beginning to think otherwise. Anyone have any idea?

== Stats table and unit radius ==

So, I finally got {{tl|Stats table}} to work with most parameters I wanted, but it still doesn't pick up unit radii. This is supposedly, because it isn't included in the cargo table, but to me it appears to be added properly in {{tl|Hero infobox}}. Might anyone more familiar with cargo know what is happening here? -- [[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 17:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

== Builds and guides ==

I took a liberty to rework the stategy and builds sections on [[Tyrande]]'s page to a "Builds and guides", reformating the guide by [[User:Thegreat610]] to a collapsed table (it was damn long, almost half of the whole page length by itself). I also added links to sites that provide guides for wider variety of POVs.

What does everyone think of this kind of arrangement? I don't think we necessarily need to as far as to make guides for every hero, but we could make such section just for links. --[[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 12:31, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
:Thank you again for your great formating skills! It looks great! Guides like on [[Tyrande]]'s or [[Chen]]'s page are a double-edged sword. On the one hand they are a great addition for this wiki. On the other hand we would be responsible to keep them up-to-date.--[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 06:59, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
::Yes that is definitely an issue with this and, to be fair, it is not limited to just commitment, but also having proficiency with the given hero and similar views to how they should be played, which makes it more difficult than just keeping hero or cosmetic information up to date. I also feel that because 'how a hero should be played' isn't exactly a matter that has only one answer, we should avoid it coming out as such. Regardless, I do not think we need to strictly deny this kind of content, so I'm looking to use this kind of arrangement. --[[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 14:33, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

== Modified versions of Generic Talents ==

I made a "similar effects" section in Generic Talents pages for effects that do not use the exact mechanic of the original version, but I started to become unsure with drawing the line between what would be considered a modified version. So I would like to ask what does everyone else think. I have a couple of options to propose:

: A: Only label the talent as "modified", if the Hero had the talent in the first place.
: B: Talent can be labeled as "modified", if it has the exact same mechanics the original version, but may have differing values or level it is picked at, additional effects, not affect all Abilities or have slightly differing trigger conditions (e.g. Executioner-like talent not being triggered from Roots)
: C: Talent has most of the functionalities, in the same manner as original. (e.g. passive range increase or passive AS increase from Nexus Frenzy unconditionally)
: E: Too confusing, so just labeling them all as modified, if it has similar functionality to the original.

Which option (can be multiple) do you feel like would make the most sense, or if you have any other suggestions feel free to tell. Currently, I'm leaning on A+C or B, but would that be too confusing? I don't mind rolling the changes I've already made back, if that seems like the best option. -- [[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 12:54, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

== Modifying Skill and Talent templates and semi-automating the ability lists on effect pages ==

I've been planning to make templates that could query the ability information from the data page (talent type, level, description at the very least) and display the information in a clean sortable table format. However, as this would require some restructuring and may cause disruptions to the site, I wanted to discuss the changes beforehand.

The issue with ability lists is that updating them is a bit troublesome, as every time there is some change in an ability's values, the manually input information becomes outdated and requires changing on almost all the pages the ability is listed on, and it is also somewhat hard to keep track of all the pages the ability is listed on.

The setup I'm looking to make would look something like this, where 

<pre><nowiki>{{(PH)effect list/header|Silence}}
{{(PH)effect list/slot|Alarak|Discord Strike|<custom notes>}}
{{(PH)effect list/slot|Mephisto|Unspeakable Horror|<custom notes>}}
|}</nowiki></pre>

would give

{|class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible"
! colspan="6" | Abilities and Talents with Silence
|-
! style="width:15%" | Ability/Talent 
! Hero
! Type
! Level
! Description
! Notes
|-
| style="text-align:center" | [[File:Discord_Strike_Icon.png|32px]] Discord Strike
| style="text-align:center" | {{Hero tile|Alarak}}
| style="text-align:center" | Basic Ability
| style="text-align:center" | -
| After a 0.5 second delay, enemies in front of Alarak take 165 damage and are silenced for 1.5 seconds.
| style="padding-left:20px" | <li> Alarak's level 7 Talent, ''Dissonance'', increases the Silence duration.
|-
| style="text-align:center" | [[File:Unspeakable_Horror_Icon.png|32px]] Unspeakable Horror
| style="text-align:center" | {{Hero tile|Mephisto}}
| style="text-align:center" | Talent upgrade
| style="text-align:center" | 20
| Durance of Hate Silences enemies while they are Rooted and for 3 seconds after its Root expires.
| style="padding-left:20px" |
|}

This way we would only need to make changes to the entry, when the effect is added to a talent or removed from it.

In order to make this happen, some changes need to be made to the existing skill and talent templates:

# '''Separate "undocs" from the description field''' - We don't want the entries to get too long and for most cases all this information is not necessary, if we are just listing the abilities/talents with the effect. People that want this information can look it up from the hero page.
# '''Labeling the ability types''' - If I've understood correctly, the last field in the current templates is for the type, but this has not really been used. The types would be as labeled in-game: Basic Ability, Heroic Ability, Trait, Active, Passive, Talent upgrade.
# '''Add abilities and talents to cargo''' - I believe this is required to make pulling the ability information work. There may be other ways that I do not know of.

Is anyone opposed to this kind of progression and would anyone be willing to help?

My plan of action is to start with copying skill and talent templates to new a new template (to minimize disruption to the whole site) with support for #1 and #2, and after this is working, add the cargo integration, and lastly make the list templates. It would be great if someone could help me with cargo, (although I can probably make it work after 50-some edits) but at the very least help would be appreciated after rolling the changes for #1 to swap in the new templates on hero pages and separate the fields on data pages. This would be a simple copy-paste job, but it would still take one person a couple of hours, as I noticed when adding the guide sections on hero pages. And of course when the templates are done, with changing lists to the new format, but that does not need to be coordinated and can be done gradually over time, as it does not break any existing templates.

Please do also tell, if you have any questions or or suggestions to refine this idea, or there is something that I should be wary of. --[[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 15:11, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

::As always: I am impressed by your skills! Thank you for your great work! --[[User:LemonBaby|LemonBaby]] ([[User talk:LemonBaby|talk]]) 08:08, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

:::Thanks, but let's not party yet. The main reason that nothing has burned down so far, is that I haven't touched anything yet. :S I'm probaby starting sometime around next week, and we'll see then how it goes. --[[User:Taqx2|Taqx2]] ([[User talk:Taqx2|talk]]) 14:15, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

== Visited link color ==

The current visited link color should be changed - it looks [https://imgur.com/a/EobdCwX horrible]. [[User:Phoe nixx|Phoe nixx]] ([[User talk:Phoe nixx|talk]]) 16:08, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

::This please, it's completely illegible and makes the Wiki hard to use as is. Same color as the dark background. --[[User:RexxarMain|RexxarMain]] ([[User talk:RexxarMain|RexxarMain]]) 15:01, 8 August 2021 (UTC)